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tv   Mosaic  CBS  December 11, 2011 5:00am-5:30am PST

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cbs5.com hello and welcome to mosaic. i'm tom burke. there are words when people hear them, and those in the faith and those not in the faith know they're catholic words. they includes the rosery, confessions, guilt. i'm kidding about that one. but there is one and not the least of which, dominance 220, the lord be with you and with your spirit. my guest today is laura. she is the director of worship for the archdiocese in san francisco. and here to talk about the text
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changes in the mass. i'm not going to suggest that you're old enough to remember the old mass. but old in the day, there was the pope's phone number. >> not quite. but if you've traveled in other languages, they still use the term and with your spirit. every other major language group uses it. the english are catching up by our changing back to with your spirit. >> and we're talking about the changes in the mass. mass has been around forever. and these changes have come more urgently in the last 40 or 50 years with that, right? >> yes. >> tell us about that and we'll talk about why we're going back to them. >> sure. the history of the mass goes back to jesus's time and before then, since it's based on --
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late literacy. it didn't change for about 400 years till 1963. the second vatican council happened and major changes happened then. we switched from latin to english or whatever language you had. but many other changes, the priest turned from having their back to you to facing you and a lot more participation, things thated that been in the mass for centuries had been taking out. >> it was exciting. >> it was exciting and it continues today. many people thought it was improvement. but some people, obviously objected. in 1970, english translation of that mass came out and it was all intended to be a temporary translation. they didn't rush t it was --
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rush it. it was experts that did it. >> it may have been a more casual translation, not a rigid translation? >> right. they used a method of translation of dynamic equivalency. just make sure that the person reading it gets the same idea what the latin said. since this new trance lax has come out -- translation has come out and pope john paul ii made a latin missile and they add new saints' days and new prayers. when you translate this new one, we would like you to do it different called formal correspondence. we want you to get as close to word as word as possible.
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don't paraphrase. try to get as close as you can to what the latin says. >> what you're telling us, and i'm proud to be catholic and part of this, is that while, the church has been trying to get it right for 2,000 years. but specifically this has been going for a dozen years. >> absolutely. it took them from 200 to 2010 to do the translation. it's a big book. 2,000 pages and so that means there are at least 2,000 prayers. so it's takes time to go from scratch and go from prayer by prayer. things that we were used to saying. >> so our precipitation was barely changed. but presiders, clergy, priests and deacons have had major changes in their text.
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>> they have. every text has changed. we've had little words change here and here and it seems disruptive. every single prayer has had a week to here or there. and i was discussion it with the -- discussing it with the archbishop. one priest said he's said it about 10,000 times and suddenly we're changing the words that is a hard habit to break. >> change. nothing changes, nothing changes. we'll come back on mosaic. stay with us, your spirit too.
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welcome back to mosaic. today we are speaking with laura, the worship director for
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the are archdiocese of san francisco and we are talking about mass text changes in the mass. this is the third edition. and it's called 2,000 pages of prayers. people in the pews get used to the text have been using handouts that they're parishes are making available to them. and we have something to show for that too. and those have been helpful. some have the basics. the one at the cathedral has a more comprehensive list of prayers for the faithful. how is this for you? my marching orders are why? what are the reaction to the changes? >> we're catholic that means universal. so our reaction have been universal. you have people that love it and people that resent it. the vast majority kind of accept it and say, why are we doing this? let's get on with it.
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for me, we always want people to pay more attention what they're saying and doing. so it's been a great opportunity to make people think about what they're saying. i'm as guilty as anyone. i can say our father and think of my grocery list at the same time. >> is that multi-tasking? >> yeah. and i found even now, i know the responses within your spirit. but if i'm thinking of something, and also with you is muscle memory and tongue memory. this is making people more deliberate about what we say. there has been a lot of controversy about certain words that we've changed. we now say in the crede, i believe which is different. people say what that mean? i don't use that word in everyday speech. >> what does it mean? >> of the same essence. it means that christ was the
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same essence of the father. he's not something different. he was both god and man. it is and sat word. but there's nothing wrong with that. and if it makes people think twice and if it makes people say why are we saying that, with your spirit what does that mean? all the better. >> and you get to look at the new text every week ongoing? >> yes. and we have missiles and people are able to do all of that. when we look back to vatican ii, i was a kid nonetheless, but that -- is this big enough change to create -- as vatican ii did? >> i don't think so. it's not a change not order of the mass. the outline of the mass has not changed one bit. the words we use have changed. if someone wants to get really upset because we're saying of one being and they kneel is
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enough for them to leave the church, i think there are probably other issues that they had before that. i think it is kind of -- it brings out a lot of change and a lot of old history and emotions. it's okay. there's nothing wrong with it. i've never heard someone say i'm leaving the church because of this. the bishops in the united states and in the world have made a concerted effort to prepare people for this vatican ii was a shotgun approach. some parishes switched to english and others would not. and so it was a malicious mash. and it -- a mishmash. we have worked for 18 months to get this right. we've had workshops and articles in the catholic san francisco and it's been on cnn. you go on to the yahoo and they're talking about the new mass, which is great. we're excited about that so we tried to make sure that people
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were aware of it. it doesn't mean to say on christmas we will not have a lot of shocked faces for people that have not been to mass in the last four weeks and say this is not what i learned from sister mary margaret. >> we have to go on a break. but let's talk about what didn't change. the church great faith in translations about the readings and those kinds of things, right? >> right. we're working on having more readings at mass. but nothing else changed. the order of mass, why we say things, when we stand and sit and all those things, exactly the same. >> we'll sneak away. when we come back, i'll ask you that question that you brought up before the show, and we're not alone in this. there are other faiths in these changes with us. we'll find out about that when we come back on mosaic.
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welcome back to mosaic. today we're talking about changes in the roman catholic mass and we're talking about it with our guest who is the director of worship for the archdiocese of san francisco. and we're happy to be joined by people of many faiths. and you told me we're not alone in this the changes do have some impact on other religions. >> they do. the catholic church has worked for interfaith dialogue with christians and nonchristians. and after vatican ii, the main line protestant groups were
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excited about the changes. they adopted our idea. they appreciated the changes that we made to the readings and they also adopted a lot of our prayers. if you walk no a lot of churches they made changes too. at first they were a little up set. we changed to match you and now you're changing without letting us know and i don't know if we want to make the same changes. they feel we've gotten out of sync. we did not understand the impact it would have the fact that you can walk into other churches and say the same prayers that is upsetting to some people. but many of our orthodox brothers and sisters are excited with the changes because we have become more in line with what they say in the orthodox church, particular whether i they pray over the bread.
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we changed some of our words to line up more with the orthodox church. so they're saying, thank you, now we're more in synch with the orthodox. it can cause hurt feelings and confusion. and now we're saying different words. what we're trying to say that the dialogue goes on and it's still important. a gloria is a gloria or a crede is a crede. >> it's great to know that there is a widespread interest. everything is contained in the book, the 2,000 page book. how many were printed? do you have any idea? >> tens of thousands. >> every church, school, parish, chapel, had to order one or two or three. i think we ordered several hundred. >> and i understand the proofreaders of the book are still in therapy. >> yeah. >> who does that printing?
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it's amazing. 2,000 pages so many printed. do we as catholics, clergy or people, do we ever get through the whole thing? >> of course. >> how? >> 2,000 pages. >> there are some pages in the back which are pretty rarely used like the ordination of the bishop. how often does that happen? every five or ten years. we start the beginning and there's prayers for every sunday and many weekdays, anything in a feast of season and prayers for all the saint days in the calendar. so absolutely. if you look -- if you're watching someone, you'll start at the begining that is advent. and as the time goes on, slowly but surely you'll be halfway through the book and we start all over again. salutely people get through. -- absolutely people get through. >> i'm from philadelphia. and a father told me a story about a priest in the day of
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the older mass, they'll ask prayer of the mass -- the last prayer of the mass was the last gospel and he would read the last gospel. it was usually a laminated thing. and so he had a button right by where the last gospel was and he pressed the button and it would go off in the kitchen. and they would put his eggs on. but i love that story. but we told it here before. what happen to the last gospel or is it still there? it's actually the first gospel, isn't it? >> exactly. that is one of the changes that happened when they changed the order of mass. one thing that the bishops wanted was to take out all the extra things. things that were supposed to be minor, suddenly took great importance. such like the last gospel was something that the priest was to say to himself. but suddenly it took on all
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this importance. there were laminated cards. and they suddenly felt that wasn't part of the mass. and they did get rid of it and like the prayer at the foot of the alter. that is something that we don't need everyone to do. >> 20 seconds, tell us what the greatest thing about this? >> it makes people realize what we're doing. it wakes people up. >> all right. we'll take a break and we'll be back on mosaic.
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do your part. be a part of be out there. there's a reason why they call it the great outdoors. learn more at be out there dot org. [kids shouting] be out there! we're back on mosaic today. and we're happy to be speaking about changes in the text. roman catholic mass. and taking us through the words and much about it is our guest
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who is the director of worship for the archdiocese for san francisco. i wish we had more time. >> no, you don't because i could talk about this for hours and i have. >> i get the senior rate at parking now. we're talking about the text, the new missile, 2,000 pages of words. you mean there have to be tens of thousands of old missiles. what happened to the old missiles? >> we consider them to being sacramento and blessed and -- -- some of our churches are going to burn the old ones and use them for ash wednesday. >> some are so thick it may take to ash wednesday to burn it. >> we're talking about that so
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we're talking with catholic cemeteries to bury them and perm cleaning out theirs could sets. i'm getting old missiles from 1960. we'll make sure they're properly disposed of. >> will there be a special right then when their put down? >> there's a special right when their blessed. >> we're talking about it and you said the number printed, tens of thousands. they're all over the country. >> not just in the united states. all the other english speaking countries in the world. and there are ten other major english speaking countries. >> as a faith or group of people who has established groups in various countries, does this bring us closer together with other english speaking countries? >> i believe so. they asked for the english translation is that we have one
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english translation. and when you go to england they'll be using the exact same prayers. they didn't. i lived in london for five years. they had slightly different words to the crede and they always tripped me up. but now you'll have the same ones. and they're asking the same of other languages as well. they just finished a spanish translation. it couldn't be completely common. but the order of mass and the prayers, every spanish speaking country will use the same one that is nice. and nice to travel and walk into a church in australia and you know they're going to use the same gloria and spanish speakers, whether in argentina or spain, they'll be using the same words. >> and we talked about one of the most reliable phrases of the mass dominance 220. a great guy his extension is
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220. is that coincidence? >> i don't think so. i think somebody had a very good sense of humor. >> we have some time. what have we not talked about? >> i had like people to know there wasn't an ulterior moment of this took 40 years. and for people to really pay attention. it's a great opportunity for me to know that people have to listen and watch for what they're saying but some of the new words are poetic. we poet i can language right now. we've continued to say things like the god is the fountain of all holiness and we say that you are to be praise from the rising of the sun to the setting. you can say from dawn to dusk. but that doesn't sound quite as nice. people have kind of made fun or mocked the fact that they say send your gifts down like the do fall that is a beautiful image if you stop and think about it and in our world of
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tweets and text and abbreviations and internet, we forget about using words that are poetic. under my roof. it means my house -- you're so wonderful, i can't imagine you coming in my home. it's very lush language. and it's not what we're used to hearing. and people say i like it more. we're doing something fantastic when we worship and go to a eucharist. so having a beautiful language is something that we can appreciate. >> they're the changes in the mass text of the roman catholic church. console me now. what about those of us that miss certain words? my favorite words and those that left this world in your friendship. and it's gone. >> i'm sorry. but there are other words that
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are just as beautiful that have come back. and i look forward to hearing from people what words in the new trance lax do they joy what -- translation do they enjoy. >> it's been wonderful having you here. i hope you come back again. and i know where you live. ten seconds. >> i wish everyone a happy advent and merry christmas and we have a new year and new translation of the missile and i hope they enjoy it and i hope they pay attention and know why we worship and give thanks to god no matter what your religion gown is that we're appreciate -- religion and we're appreciative and grateful. thank you for joining us this morning on mosaic. yeah, i'm married. does it matter?
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